Episode 59: Why Messy Action Builds Better Businesses W/ Coffee With M & J

  📍 Welcome to the Creative Minds Smart Money Podcast, where we turn financial confusion into creative confidence. I’m Samantha Eck, bookkeeper and fractional CFO for creative entrepreneurs. Each week I’m sharing my financial expertise and actionable strategies to help you build a thriving creative business. Plus, you’ll hear from industry experts who bring fresh perspectives on growing your business beyond the numbers. Because building a successful creative business starts with strong financial foundations. Your next chapter starts now.  

You are listening to the Creative Minds Smart Money Podcast, and today I am so excited to welcome Mandy and Jamie from Coffee with m and j. How are you both today?

good, Jamie?

I am good. Thank you for having us on.

Yes. Thank you.

absolutely. It’s a beautiful day outside. Let’s kick things off. Tell me a bit about who you are, what it is that you both do, and kind of like what lights up your work lately.

Jamie, you wanna go first or do you want me to go first?

I can, it doesn’t matter. I can go first. Hi. My name is Jamie Maddox. Jamie Maddox. Apparently my words are twisted today. I am a daily habits coach, speaker, author. Co-host of the coffee with m and j podcast, I am, a cancer survivor. Lots of other health issues. And all of that got me to where I am today, and it is really, practicing tools, right? I teach people practical tools that they can fit into their lives. And, the podcast is what we really wanna focus on today. So I’m just gonna keep it like super short and let Mandy keep it super short so we can talk about the podcast too.

Yes. Mandy Hedrick with, MJ Designs and Marketing. I almost forgot my business name, which is crazy. Sometimes I’ll mix my business name up and I was like, oh my. Gosh, what is my brain doing anyways, do social media and graphic designs, all things marketing for small businesses and nonprofits. Jamie and I met networking and so we have a really big passion around community and, we were having really deep conversations that led to why are we not recording this and making it into a podcast? So that’s how Coffee with m and j started. So, but lighting me up in my work right now. I just went on a conference a few weeks ago and my mind is still spinning from the conference, so yeah, that’s what’s lighting me up. Jamie.

so exciting.

Yeah, sorry.

No, was I supposed to say something that was lighting me up? I’m sorry I missed that.

What’s.

so, and I think you, you talk about messing up your business name, I don’t even know if I said mine. It’s New Soul Rising. And really, honestly, the thing that lights me up the most these days is, is working with people. When I am actually with my clients in session. Like, that’s like, I mean, I have lots of bigger whys as to why I am doing everything I’m doing in my personal life, but the. Oh my gosh. When you get to not only witness, but assist people in changing their lives, that lights me up.

Yes. I love that you said that too. ’cause I feel like that’s. what lights me up in my work is when I get to change the lives of the people I work with and like see their progress and everything. It’s so exciting. It’s just an exciting feeling for sure.

Mm-hmm.

But I know you guys are very community focused, so I wanna talk a lot about like. Yes, your podcast, but the business as well. What do you think the biggest turning points in your life or business were and what role did taking action play? ’cause I know that you guys want, of the things you wanna talk about was taking action. So what, what role did taking action play in those biggest turning points?

So when we started the podcast, we took messy action. We didn’t sit and hoe and hum and think, and we literally went from zero to 90 in like 10 days time. Would you agree with that, Jamie? It was really fast.

I.

we can figure this out.

From the conversation in my hallway, where I was like, oh my gosh, why are we not recording this? This is content gold. To the first recording, I think it was three weeks, like total from that conversation to actually having a podcast recorded. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean it didn’t necessarily air that fast, but we were pretty quick on getting it up and ready to go and I think it was around the same time you started your podcast.

Yes.

were in that same mindset. Same like I think this is gonna happen. And it really was just taking the action and not letting the, don’t wanna say fear, but the unknowns or the what ifs or how do we stop you, right?

Like Google’s your friend, YouTube’s your

Mm-hmm.

figure it out. It’s not, it’s not anything that, just try something new.

yes.

Okay, so we did, when we started the podcast, we did take messy action. I think a big distinction that I wanna throw out there is Mandy and I are very different. For as much as we have a lot of. Common core values, and passions for serving the community and building community and all of the things.

I especially historically have found action so uncomfortable that I’ve let the discomfort stop me. And Mandy has a completely opposite perspective on action. She is just an action taker. So I think your question was like, what was the biggest action or how did it. What exactly was the wording?

The

Oh, the turning point. So honestly, I’m in the middle of the biggest turning point right now. And, the only way you can create any momentum in your life is by taking action. Take messy action, wash one dish at a time. If you don’t have time to wash all the dishes, wash one dish at a time. And I know that’s silly, but when I tell you have to start the action somewhere, you have to start anywhere that you can actually take that step. It does not matter what it is, but action. If you’re not in action, you’re not gonna go anywhere.

Yes. No, I completely agree. I think it, it’s almost been a year now ’cause we’re going, July was when I released my podcast and was so scared. I was like, I don’t know if this is gonna work. But thing I also had at the back of my mind is, do I enjoy doing it? Because I was like, if I enjoy it, it doesn’t matter if there’s 10,000 people listening, a hundred thousand people listening, I just want. Myself to enjoy the content I’m producing so that I feel good about it. And then if the people comment and they’re like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, great. But like at least I’m having fun creating content and like getting out there and doing something that I actually love doing to promote my business or like even talk about what I want, I teach so.

agree. don’t know if you’ve had the aha moments like we have where you’re seeing, conversations come full circle. Back to your podcast and you’re like, I made an impact, or we made an impact. And it’s really cool, just like

yes.

you see the action being taken that, you know, you talked about. And so you’re like, was that from, and they’re like, yes. And you’re like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I dunno. That was totally random and lots of blah blah blahs. But.

No.

No, but.

true.

Yeah. And I think not just in podcasting, but I mean, Samantha, I think you touched on the most important thing is the fun. How much fun are you having with it? Because we are having fun with it. We both have very full schedules, but the podcast, it is fun. And there was something else you said, Mandy, that I wanted to touch on, and of course it’s just.

Zipped right outta my brain. But I think that, , having fun, seeing the impact in the community play out in real life is not something we all get to witness. I. Often, so I think Mandy and I are still basking in that one. A community event. Literally one of our guests was sharing that they wanted to have an event, and one of our listeners made that event happen.

So as long as your messages are reaching the right people, the numbers aren’t as important.

Yes. I think that’s so true too. ’cause I’ve had people who’ve approached me and been like, you know, this is exactly what I was looking for. I just needed to know a little bit more information on it. Like I think one of my most popular episodes was the quarterly taxes one, because people like don’t know what quarterly taxes are.

And I know, I know Mandy does because she’s used to work with the IRS, but like. People don’t know. There’s not enough education on it. The IRS is just like pay quarterly taxes. And people are like, I have to pay more taxes. And I’m like, what happened was, it was that ripple effect exactly what you’re talking about, where people were like, oh my gosh, like I just needed to know a little bit more information about it.

Now I’m not so scared or worried about it because like, you know, sometimes all they need is just that little push in the right direction.

Totally,

Mm.

totally. Just like I, I listened to your recent podcast about, hiring a. Contractor, which I’ve hired contractors before, but they’ve always kind of been under this $600 amount. ’cause it’s just been like one-offs here and there. But I was getting ready to do like a long term and I was like, oh, it was so just, good to hear.

Like I was in the right going the right directions, the right steps. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I feel like that’s, that’s builds that confidence because yeah, like you do wanna take action, but you wanna feel like you kind of know what you’re doing before you take action just a little bit.

Right. At least that you’re in the right movement and not necessarily like, oh, I should have if I would’ve known,

Yeah.

for sure.

So you guys actually answered a couple of the questions I have, but let’s shift and answer maybe some things like in your business as well. What’s a moment when you were scared to take the leap, but did it anyway, and then kinda what happened because of that?

So.

Mandy. Go.

I, Jamie always tells me I’m like the odd bird out here, but really ever afraid to make that leap. I am not a roadblock kind of person. I am a Oh, that’s not gonna work. Let me pivot. Let me adjust, let me go over under to the left to the right. Maybe I need to sprout some wings for a short amount of time. But I don’t really let obstacles stop me. And it’s just always been a mindset I’ve had. It’s not necessarily something that , like I’ve worked on or, Jamie and I have talked about this quite a bit. In fact, we were reviewing all your podcast questions together it was just one of those things that we were like. I don’t know how to answer that one because it doesn’t, I don’t really feel like it applies to me, which is weird to say. I don’t know, but every day’s a new adventure. Go for it. What are you waiting for?

yes, yes.

What about you, Jamie?

I have trouble choosing one defining thing. And I’m on the polar, like I’m on the total opposite side of Mandy. Like I cannot stress this enough that I from a very young age, started developing limiting beliefs about myself and about the world, and I can’t tell you how many times they’ve stopped me.

So when I tell you, just take the first step. Just take the first step, I can’t stress that enough. One of the first. Pivotal moments for me in building my business was beginning to network in person. It was terrifying to walk by yourself, walk into a room of strangers, and like that day I learned what an elevator pitch was and I didn’t have one. I was the person bumbling for three minutes, but you can’t know until you go due. So, um,

that Mandy’s like, oh my gosh, just stop talking already and get to your point and move on.

but Mandy was also the person because we started networking around the same time. Around the same time. Mandy was the person who would just be like.

Yep. That was me, but I did it.

But you did it. Yes.

No, it’s true. I felt the same way, when I went to my first one because, I think I told Mandy this, but I always talk about the way that I started my business was I was in corporate accounting, but I wanted to. I wanted to do something like, for myself, I just had no idea how to handle clients.

I was like, I don’t know how to handle people. I can do the work, but I’m like, I don’t know, like the backend client part of it. And so the course I took was like, yeah, go out, talk to people. And I went out to a networking event, like my very first one, I don’t know if you guys have ever been to the one that’s in San Marcos at the , Kirby Lane. That was the very first one I went to. I had no idea what to expect and everyone was clumped together. So I was like, how do I go and talk to people? What do I say? , I have a business card. Do I just hand out my business card? And then I also learned that’s not something you do either.

Usually people will ask for your business card and then , same experience when they were like, Hey, tell us a bit about your business. I was like, I’m a bookkeeper.

So good trick, good trick for anybody that’s listening that might, be starting their journey. If you want to give your business card, ask for somebody else’s business card. First, and then you’ll be like, oh, here’s mine. And you trade.

yes, yes. That’s a really good one because I feel like you don’t know that. You’re like, what? What do I do? Like you bring that in preparation, but. I was also that I said like, I don’t wanna be like sleazy, I don’t wanna be like, here, just take my business

Yep.

like, I wanna, I wanna actually engage and like meet people and like get to know people around the area.

So I feel like that’s such good advice because I feel like there’s so much, there’s so much surrounding in-person networking that’s like an unknown and it’s such a, like, gut reaction. It’s like that fear.

Yes.

that’s something very messy that you take, but you just kind of grow the way you do it.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. And you,

Yes.

each group has its own little nuances too.

Yes,

Mm-hmm. And the more you do it, the easier it gets.

yes, yes,

And I mean, practice your elevator pitch. Like if we’re going for tips here, if you are a young business, if you are like, know what you get, but you’re really clear on what you do.

Mm-hmm. And who, who your ideal client is.

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that that does come with time. Like you’re in that stage where you’re like, I don’t know who my ideal client is yet, but I’m just, I’m trying to get into business and that does take time. But the point of it is just like trying to figure that out and trying to work it out like I did BNI for almost, well, for pretty much a year.

And like that boosted my confidence tons so that when I went to these networking events, I definitely felt less.

Mm-hmm.

Because, I used to also feel intimidated by the fact that there was someone else there that also did the same thing that I do. I’m like, should I even say what I do?

Because there’s someone else that already does what I do, but I’m like, there’s, there’s no competition.

No.

connect with people, they don’t connect because you’re a bookkeeper. They don’t connect ’cause you’re in marketing, you know, they don’t connect ’cause you’re a coach. They connect because of you.

They’re like, I like you, I wanna work with you.

Yep. Exactly, exactly. personally like to network with other marketing people because like if I’ve met somebody and I’m like, it’s not really my ideal client, I wanna be able to be like, Hey, have you met this person? I feel like they’d be a really good fit for your business. I personally like to meet and talk with other people that do the same thing.

Yes, I do too, because I feel you only like to what you only know, what you know.

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

if you’re living in a bubble and you’re like, Hey, this is the, I know everything I need to know, but like someone else who has the same experiences, you can come in and say like, have you tried this? And you’re like, didn’t even think of that.

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

It’s the different perspectives. It’s the different perspectives. I think it’s hard for a lot of people. I’m just going out on my own here, but I think it’s really hard for a lot of people to let go of the comparison.

Yes.

what they’re doing, how far they’ve come, how much money they’re making, how many followers they have, how pretty their feet is, how, I can’t post this because it’ll mess up my pretty feet. I think the, what do they say? Comparison is the robber of joy or the thief of authenticity.

Mm-hmm.

Yep, yep.

Yeah.

you just have to be yourself. Like no one is gonna, no one is gonna compare you to, another bookkeeper because they’re like, wow. Like she’s herself, but she’s really cool. Like they’re looking at you because they like you.

Yes, exactly, exactly. Last season we had a lot of people on in the podcast that had. Very similar things to say. In a roundabout way, we did a whole season on, community, which we’ve adjusted our podcast. We’re no longer doing seasons like randomly. of season three, we’re like, I think we’re gonna drop seasons.

We’re just gonna podcast. I don’t know if you’ve had one of those moments where you’ve grown your podcast and all of a sudden you’re like, I think it’s time to pivot. or if you’re just like, Nope, I’m sure we’re good, but. It’s interesting because every single one of them had something similar to say, but they all said it differently.

What was the one phrase, Jamie, do you remember?

Givers gain.

Givers game. Yeah.

yes, yes,

show up, when you show up and you build the relationship, everything else falls into place. We, I think, I can’t remember who it was, we even talked about Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come. But that is the relationship we’re talking about. Build the relationship with the people, your people will.

Be attracted to you. And I don’t know, I think you touched on something and I, I think there’s a lot that goes on in networking where, I think most people weed out the people that are like the, just trying to sell you something.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

I think there are certain people that that really do get that reputation.

But yeah, season two in community, it was absolutely amazing to have so many different people share so many different perspectives, and it all came back to the givers gain.

It did. It did.

I actually just, there’s an episode coming out at the beginning of May where I talked to a lady and she was talking, she said that one of her friends, Zoes told her it’s like commission breath is what? She calls it like, you know how you have coffee, breath? She’s like, when someone walks up to you and you just know that they’re trying to sell you on something.

Commission breath. That’s fantastic. I think that might be like my new, like, oh my gosh, have you had that meeting yet? Because they have commission breath.

I seriously though, because quite a few people in networking are connected in our friends and. Like literally, if you are just there to make a sales pitch, it goes really fast and then you don’t make any more meetings. ’cause people are like, no, I’m gonna need to pass on that because they know the sales pitch that’s coming.

So I.

exactly. And I think that’s, that’s another thing that’s like a great like tip, like go in there with the intent of connection. Don’t go in there with the

Mm-hmm.

of making a sale. Sure, you could make a sale, you could walk in and walk out with someone who’s like, I absolutely wanna work with you.

But that’s not the intention that you have to go in with because people can tell the difference between your intention and like what you’re trying to portray.

Mm-hmm. Completely.

where do you personally draw the line between preparation and procrastination? Especially like when it comes to things like the podcast.

I feel like it helps having two of us because like I’m in a really busy season right now, which means Jamie’s picked up most of the podcast duties versus. I know there will be a time where Jamie’s gonna be really busy and I’ll be holding all the podcast duties. So I feel like having two of us really helps to balance that. But as Jamie, she has a completely different answer.

Oh. I was waiting for you to say this doesn’t apply to me because I’m an action taker.

That too.

Right. Mandy is an action taker, so it’s really interesting because I do often find myself in that space where I’m asking questions like, am I genuinely exhausted and I need this rest, or am I. Putting off what I really need to do, but I don’t want to do, I find myself sometimes in that space every day, like at you as a solopreneur.

Even if you have a, some employees or contract employees, it’s still you are your main source of motivation 24 7. Sometimes that’s exhausting, like motivating yourself always to keep going and checking in with your mindset and make sure you’re.

When it comes to the podcast, I don’t have that problem. I love, like I’ll stop, I will stop, wait. Mandy will message me and be like, oh, something this, or something that, and I’m like on it. I stop everything I do and go directly to the podcast and I think it’s because I just am having fun with the podcast.

And when you’re not doing it solo it. It’s easier to take that action. It is so much easier to just do it. Not from a place of, I don’t wanna disappoint Mandy, which I don’t. But, I don’t know. So the podcast is really interesting. I think when you hit that passion, then you don’t procrastinate.

You just don’t.

Yes. I think that’s so true. ’cause I feel the same way. Like every time I sit down to do like my bulk recordings, I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m so excited. Like I wanna edit them, I wanna get all the things for them. And every time I go on threads and I’m like, I can’t wait for you all to see what’s coming because I’m so jazzed about it.

Yes.

true. I just, I don’t know when it’s a passion project. I. It just, it hits different, just does.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. ’cause I think there’s so much, so much in business, like for, in terms of like marketing avenues that are so serious,

Mm-hmm.

people consider serious like Instagram, like LinkedIn, like things like that. People are just like, you have to be like rigid and like fit into a box in order to get anywhere.

And so it feels like it sucks the fun out of it. Whereas like with podcasting, it’s almost like your own platform and you get to portray it in the way that you see best fit.

Mm-hmm.

I think what makes it fun is because like you get to show off who you really are without the pressure of feeling like someone’s looking over your shoulder consistently being like, that’s not the way a podcast is supposed to be done.

So true. Here’s the box or bubble and I’m like, la, la, la, la, la, la.

yes.

don’t, I I’m not really a into. A check mark kind of person.

Yeah, we have a lot of fun with it.

Usually, I mean, usually I think there’s, I’ll, I’ll let you ask another question instead of answering it before you ask.

No. Yeah. Let’s roll into collaboration. What’s one of your favorite ways you partnered with someone in business?

I think it’s the.

Yeah, for sure. I think you had some really good questions about collaboration. So I feel like when you’re collaborating with other people, you have to be very mindful of coming to a place where you are in sync. With your goals and ideas, it can’t just be, you’re going rogue, right? in your own business you can go rogue as much as you want ’cause it only affects you or in your own personal life, whatever. But when you are collaborating with somebody else, even on one podcast, right? You have to be mindful of, even though it is your podcast, but still you’re having a guest on. And as guests, we’re gonna be mindful of. What your vision is also. Do you know what I mean? And I think that’s just the biggest part of collaborating in any way.

Whether you’re inviting someone to collaborate on a post or you’re doing an event together, is making sure that everybody is on common grounds.

I actually had a lot of fun yesterday as we were going through the questions. I just read off the questions and we took turns practicing What we may or may not say, and I don’t know about you ladies. I. But it doesn’t matter how many times I practice something, it always comes out a little bit different anyway.

Yeah.

the thing that I think, the thing that I loved the most about our conversation yesterday in reviewing these questions was we got really clear, not every collaboration comes together the way Mandy and I came together. Like we have a contract, we communicate. This was part of our conversation yesterday because I absolutely think of Mandy when I am posting in stories.

Like when I’m on coffee with m and j and I am the one posting in the story or post making the post or this or that, it because the podcast is both of us as a emerge, like I wouldn’t necessarily just go out on coffee with m and j and post a random video of me talking about whatever I’m talking about.

It’s not on brand. It’s not what we do. I have. Respect that, man would know even the way we comment. We keep each other in mind. So I think if you’re looking to collaborate with people. You have to be able to communicate with them

You?

and establish boundaries. And Mandy and I don’t always agree on everything.

So there’s compromises that are made on both sides.

Yep.

And Mandy, what have you had to practice working with me who is not like you?

So at a networking event, we were able to present our podcast, and we had three minutes and Jamie wanted to like, practice a skit. I’m like, can’t do that. I’m not skit material. You have the wrong sister in the family if you wanna do a skit.

My little sister, she would’ve been like all for it, right? Can we bring outfits? And I’m like, no, that, that doesn’t work for me. It’s a compromise, right? I was like, no, we can wing this. It’s three minutes, it’ll be fine. And Jamie’s no, we gotta talk about this. We gotta have, we gotta have a plan.

I’m like, no, no, no, it’s fine. so compromise was, we talked a lot about what we were gonna talk about and then we went for it, right? That was the compromise. But knowing on how far you can push somebody to meet that you’re, that you’re collaborating with is important.

Yeah. I love that and I love that you guys are really talking about getting into it deep because I feel like there are a lot of people who don’t have in their podcast, but I think this also applies to people who are guesting on a show, like being on the same. And I feel like a lot of the times when you put things out there like on threads and things like that, like there was one guest specifically that I had that I turned down who just applied outta the blue.

They didn’t comment on anything. I didn’t get to know them. And that’s why I start stopped posting just my application everywhere. ’cause I was like, I want people who actually like wanna be on the podcast for the right reasons and not just be like, I wanna be on the podcast. I’m like, and it was one of the first. Two or three interviews that I was doing, and I was like, don’t even know what I’m doing yet.

We actually have one sitting out there that’s very si similar. I’m like, I don’t even know that, like you fit into what our podcast is like. It was totally to be on the podcast. Like, I’m like, it doesn’t really work like.

yes.

Yeah, I

And running down the middle of the road playing devil’s advocate. It’s always a no if you don’t ask. And as business owners, we have to be empowered in our nose and our boundaries, right? So,

valid.

Mandy and I have talked about, but not yet experienced having someone that neither one of us knows on the podcast.

So far, all of our guests, either we both know, or one of us knows enough to know, and trust. And the day’s going to come when we have people on that we really don’t know, and we’ve even had that conversation. Because, so what happens if you have somebody on, I don’t know what your show is rated, so I’ll keep my potty mouth aside, I’ll keep it closed, but.

What happens if somebody records and it’s junk? And that’s the best I can say, you know? ’cause I wanna yell. What if it’s s. Like all dramatic Mandy’s looking at me funny. She’s like, Jamie, shut up. I, but I think the whole collaboration thing goes so far beyond just podcasts, right.

Yes. Yep.

okay. One thing that I have really, really learned, like really learned in my business is if you are doing contract work, get the contract signed before you start the contract work.

Yes.

a contract. Mandy and I are friends and we have a contract for the podcast, and what somewhere in that podcast is, you know, a clause that no matter what happens, like it’s all good. Like no bad talking. No.

in the podcast just like Vegas. Yep, yep.

Yeah.

In

So I think that’s important.

as we’ve started sending our guest contracts. To be on the podcast, just knowing that they’re accepting that we’re gonna be sharing their likeness and their voice and videos for as long as the podcast exists. So,

Yes.

and I think that there’s nothing wrong with, being upfront with what that looks like for guests for us. You know what I mean? I think it’s an important part.

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I’m actually at that stage where I’m gonna start doing that as well. I’m pulling back a little bit from guests. ’cause what I’ve noticed is a lot of the times the guest episodes don’t perform the same as like the solo episodes. And what I’ve learned is that. From my like talking to the audience a little bit is that they are there for mainly to hear about like what I’m talking about.

So that’s what they wanna hear about. So when you have a guest, they really wanna like connect with that guest. And I think that’s why I’m so like picky when I pick people to put onto the podcast. ’cause I’m like, them to bring value. And I think this is such a, like this conversation specifically is so valuable because. People just collaborate. They’re like, oh, I’ll just collaborate with whoever. But I feel like you really need to get that

Mm-hmm.

otherwise you’re just speaking out into the void.

We totally learned that last

I,

Yep. Yep. learned

yes. Yes. And I, I absolutely love that you went there because, a again, sometimes when we can watch what other people are doing, valuable lessons there too, not from a place of judgment, from a place of observation. So how often do you see people at a networking event that you go to all the time and then they’re like, oh, let’s do this workshop together.

And then you’re asking one or the other about the workshop and they’re like, oh, I don’t know. We just met last month. And I’m always like, what the heck? Like, excuse me. But that’s like getting in bed with a total stranger, right? Like you are preparing. I’m sorry ladies. I hope that’s okay.

No,

But I mean, like you’re preparing a workshop together and you just met, you don’t even know if.

Well, you don’t even know how the other person presents,

Yes,

Like, what if, what if they get up there and talk the whole time? You’re like, well, there goes my whole hour and a half gone because the other person talked for three hours. Like, you don’t even know.

think that’s so true because like you, you don’t know, you don’t know them as a person. They could go up and, and say something that’s completely off the wall and you’re like, what did they just say? And you’re like, I don’t agree with that. But then how do you, like, how would you approach that?

Like if you don’t agree with it in that moment, you’re kinda stuck, right? Like, especially if

Mm-hmm.

workshop

You’ve already, yeah, you’ve already hitched to the horse and you’re stuck because you’re like, I philosophically do not agree with what just came out of their mouth, they just sold it as it’s both of us agreeing to this and now do I get up and contradict them? I go, actually, that’s not how I feel about it.

Or, here’s a different perspective, like you’re really putting yourself in a bind without fully vetting the relationship before you jump.

Yes,

yeah. And just because people come up to you and want to collaborate with you seriously does not mean you have to say yes. We could do a whole, we could go down the road of people pleasing where everybody says yes. To everything or like, I’m in such a frenzy to get myself out there, get myself out there.

I’m just gonna work with anybody. I started working with this girl, this, she’s not a girl. She’s older than me. She’s 50 something a couple years back. And the more time, like we, we became fast friends. We started doing all kinds of stuff together. And the more I was around her, the less I liked her.

And I had to break up with her as a collaborator first and then as a friend. And she didn’t like it very much and I felt like I was like. In that role of like dumping a romantic partner and them like texting you at 3:00 AM I’m so sad. Why can’t we be friends? But it just gets so awkward and people are not willing to go into the awkward the way I am.

So I know that. But it can just, it can get So, I mean, but I guess maybe if there are lessons you have to learn, as long as you learn the lessons from ’em.

Yeah, exactly. Well, that’s true. Yes, there are lessons you have to learn, but you have to actually like garner the what you’re trying to learn.

You have to

Right,

was a lesson.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

to bounce off of all this, what would you say to someone who’s really hesitant to collaborate because they’re just, they’re afraid to give up control. I.

Mm. I feel like making sure , personally what your boundaries are and that you communicate well. Because if you can’t honestly come into a collaboration relationship and say, this is my boundary. It’s a hard no here. How you can’t expect the other person to be able to respect that, and you might get a few weeks into a collaboration and be like, oh, actually this isn’t working out.

You have to be able to know when to back out. Right. And be able to be upfront and be like, Nope, nope, nope. This isn’t gonna work. Or, you know, life’s taking a different route and this isn’t working. I mean, whatever you need to say for yourself to feel good about it. But I feel like being able to be honest is a super big part of that.

Yes.

I agree. You have to be willing to be honest with yourself, honest with the other person. Communication is key in every relationship. If you do not have communication, you do not have a relationship. And that was just piggybacking off of what Mandy said, but I had a really great thing to say. And of course it’s gone again.

’cause this is my brain. Like, I have my coffee and everything. Ask the question again and maybe it’ll come back.

It was, what would you say to someone who’s hesitant to collaborate because they’re afraid of giving up control.

If you have the right person, if you are collaborating with the right person, . I think it’s easier to compromise. I think it’s just, I think we already, it’s just the compromise. You have to be willing to compromise. We can take this to the giver’s gain. What are you willing to invest? But I mean, a true collaboration.

I guess I just wanna bring every single piece of this back to the quality of your relationships because the quality of your collaborate collaborations. Is like Mandy has. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mandy has. The most wonderful marriage, like I am not an envious person, and I just look at them like, like the green Eminem and Santa commercial.

They do exist. Like it does exist like, like it does exist. That’s not my experience, but it does exist and I also know that because this collaboration is working, that I can communicate. But just, I’m gonna take Mandy’s words. Stop being scared and just go do it.

Yes.

Try it.

Oh, oh, I remembered.

Ooh, I like this. Go.

I’m so sorry. I finally remembered.

Okay. This is actually a practical pip stop. Stop and really ask yourself. Is this in alignment? Is this project in alignment with my core values? Is this person in alignment with my core values? Does this feel good in my body? Does it feel safe? Like if any of those answers are no, well, maybe that collaboration’s not for you.

Unless you say no to everything, then you have to be careful because are you just afraid? And so everything’s off the table. you have to take some risks. Maybe it needs to start small. Maybe you’re on someone’s podcast or maybe you collaborate on a post or a small project before you do something big.

Test the waters.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. No, I think that’s really good advice actually. If you’re thinking of collaborating with someone, just start. With like something small, maybe like an email swap or something like that, just to get an idea of who they are.

Mm-hmm.

like, you know, when we’re going back to what we were talking about with people coming onto the podcast, I’ve gotten to the point where I’ve started getting pitched in my email I don’t know these people.

I’ve never interacted with these people and they’re from, it’s from PR people. So I’m always hesitant ’cause I’m like,

You’re like,

are they? Who are they? Like, I don’t know the person. And I’m like, I’m ha. I’m like, I’m happy to have them on the podcast, but the, they themselves need to fill out my application

and you’re like, and also I’m not paying them.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. If someone says that, because I think there was, there was one guy, and I don’t know, maybe they’re listening to this, but it was a, C, it was the CEO of BlackRock coffee. what the guy pitched me. And I was like, that’s random. Like

And you’re like, that would be really cool.

Yeah, that’s, I told my husband, I’m like, that’s cool. I was like, that’s cool, but like does he fit really with the audience that I’m going for? Like what is he gonna teach specifically my audience? But then also like. Does he really like, I don’t know him. Like I’ve, I’ve never met him. I’m sure he’s busy because he’s the CEO of like this huge company and I’m like, does he have the time to actually fill out the form and interact with me?

’cause I’m, I told them at every person. I’m like, that’s very important to me.

Mm-hmm.

and the one PR lady was like, well, that’s why she hired me so that she could, you know, focus on what she does best. And I’m like, well, I get it. But at the same point, like. I wanna know the people who are coming onto my podcast and who are going to be speaking to like my audience.

’cause I’m almost kind of like protective of my audience a little

Yes.

I’m like, I, I want them to actually learn something. I don’t want you to just come on so you can like pitch your, your business.

Mm-hmm. For sure. That’s interesting

Yeah.

We are not there

It really is.

We’re

What do you mean we’re not there?

we’re not getting PR pitches yet.

I don’t know if they’re PR pitches. We’re getting a few emails. I don’t know. I ignored ’em. I ignored most of ’em like that. I got one in my inbox this morning. That I’m sure it’s spam, but it seems like it, like I wanna know more about it.

Click on the links.

I am not clicking on anything. I am taking the names and going over to Google.

Like, okay. So there you go. People like spam alert, like don’t click on the links. You know, fact check on Google. I don’t know, I don’t think people should be scared of collaborations, but when collaborations are with the right people, I think it feels different.

Yes,

I think you. List. If you are actually listening to your deep inner or knowing your intuition, whatever you wanna call it, if you’re really listening, you know if it’s a good fit and if you’re not, well, I don’t even know.

Yes, So whether it’s launching something new or working with others, how do you stay grounded in who you are when you’re outside of your comfort zone?

This one would be really hard for me to answer, so I’m gonna just say pass. Jamie gets to answer. I don’t really have much of an outside of a comfort zone unless it’s public speaking, which I do force myself. That’s part of why I network, is to get up and speak in front of people, even if it’s just for 30 seconds.

It’s just myself to do the action, but that’s about the only place where I feel outside of my comfort zone. Is public speaking. Jamie, you up tag.

How do, oh yeah, of course. I have a lot of words. I always have a lot of words. How do I stay grounded outside of my comfort zone? I, there’s a lot of things. I meditate, I walk, I practice yoga. I teach yoga. Basically I practice the tools that I teach. And it’s, this isn’t something that I talk about a lot, but I am an empath.

I feel a lot of things and keeping myself in this bubble, like putting myself in this energetic bubble. It really helps me stay focused because it’s like putting on noise canceling headphones, right? Drowning out the noise and just, and I don’t think most people give themselves enough breaks to go out and get 10 minutes of fresh air or some vitamin D from the sun or just to shut the.

The mental chatter that never shuts up. Just I think a lot of people don’t even give themselves five minutes a day for that. So I say, take off your shoes even with the chance of fire ants and put your feet in the grass . or if you’re somewhere else, like wherever you are. It is, I practice a lot of tools.

I practice a lot of tools and, sometimes lose the grounding anyway.

Yes. I feel like it is hard, especially when you are outside of your comfort zone. I find that too, like I’ve had to try and find my footing because like. When I, what I tend to do when I’m outside of my comfort zone, like with BNIA lot of the time is I put up like a face. I was like, this is my extrovert self.

’cause I’m super introverted and I’m like, this is my extrovert self. I’m gonna be super bubbly and super happy. And I’m like, but my introvert self is like, I’m like drained now. Can I go home?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you’re like, and can there be less words please? Can there just be less words Now drive home, you have no music on. You are like, I need nothing but silence. Silence and coffee. Silence and coffee. Yeah.

yeah. Yep. Exactly. So looking back on everything that’s gone on in your business in the podcast, is there a piece of advice or mindset shift that’s really changed the game for you?

Come on, Mandy. You gotta have something.

Take the leap and go for it. I don’t know that it’s necessarily a mindset shift. We took the leap and went for the podcast. In my business, I was doing something else completely different, but I’ve done marketing for like 17 years at this point. Always freelanced, always on the side, always hustled for other people.

Like it’s always been something that I’ve not done for, like, as a business business, right? It’s always been my side hustle. And about three years ago I was volunteering and doing social media, in particular marketing for, a local nonprofit. And it was one of those, I was literally sitting at a band competition.

I’m like, why am I not doing this for myself full time? Why am I not doing this for myself full time? That was in October. And by March I had jumped full time and took a chance on myself. And start, like I had started my business, got my LLC, did all the things, but from October to March, I quit my job. So I would say like, what are you waiting for?

Go for it. Like, jump, take action. Go Jamie.

yes.

Well, I have experienced a lot of mindset shifts over the last decade, a lot more in the last five years. And they’re just, oh my gosh, I can’t tell you how many pivotal moments or possible if you’re willing to. To just stay in the uncomfortable, right. Just step into the uncomfortable. But the biggest mindset shift, or the first mindset shift that I recognized as part of my autonomic nervous system from practicing every day was gratitude.

And I mean, if you are not grateful for what you have. How do you expect to get more? Every morning? The very first thing before my eyes are even open is. I’m so grateful I’m alive today, and then I wiggled my toes and I’m so grateful my toes are working, and so cultivating gratitude. It it, you know, you use your conscious mind to remind yourself to be grateful for things, and then you just are grateful for things and stuff Doesn’t suck so bad.

It doesn’t suck so bad. Tagline stuff doesn’t suck so bad.

So today I’m supposed to be a comedian. I.

I feel that’s good. That’s really good advice though. You know, and, and I feel like that’s all so important and I love the conversation that we’ve had today, and I feel like it’s really valuable, not just for like us to also grow, because I feel like every conversation I have, we grow from it, but also for people listening.

We kind of get into the wrap up, how can people stay connected with you or dig deeper into your work?

So you can find us on all the channels at Coffee with m and j. That’s the podcast. And it’s literally us two having coffee chatting about life business. We have guests on. So that’s where you can connect with us if you’re interested. my personal business is MJ Designs and Marketing and Social Media graphic design, marketing tips for small businesses and nonprofits. Jamie, your turn.

Yes. So personally you can find New Soul Rising N-E-W-S-O-U-L. I don’t know why people have trouble with this rising. They always wanna make it a SOL. I’m like, no. Anyway, new soul rising everywhere. Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. It’s all very congruent. So with coffee, with m and j, yes, you can literally find us everywhere.

Spotify, apple, iHeartRadio. We are, getting all of the episodes onto YouTube video as fast as we can. We would definitely love for you to join us. And, join our community news even though our seasons are both really busy, we’re, we are working on more exciting things to come in the near future.

And, we would love for you to join that list so you can stay updated and. I would be remiss to say like, I, we just want you to listen. We want you to listen. We wanna know what’s in your cup. We start every episode with what’s in your cup, and we really want to have these conversations with you.

Like we really want to know how. How, not how we’re impacting you, but like what aligned to action you’re taking because you felt inspired or, how a particular guest made you feel, or, you know, so we just really, really, really want to encourage everyone to, to download, to listen, to share, all the places, all the usual places.

Yes. Absolutely. Well, I appreciate you both coming on today so, so much. It was great to have you.

Thanks for having us. We appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

📍 Okay, y’all. How good was that? Mandy and Jamie brought the heart, the humor and the real talk we all need when it comes to collaboration, taking messy action and building community with actual intention, not from a place of pressure or perfection, but from trusting yourself, staying aligned, and knowing that fun and fulfillment are just as strategic as any plan.

And if you’re sitting on an idea. A dream, a podcast you’ve been thinking about for weeks, this is your sign to start messy. Start scared. And just start because the magic happens when you move. So if this episode gave you something to think about, remember that you’re not alone in the messy middle. Share it with a friend.

Drop a review or DM me on Instagram. Your favorite takeaway. As always, get out there and share this episode on social media so more people like you can find it. If you have any suggestions for topics, fill out the form in. The description box and let’s get some more topics you guys love. Like I’ve been saying in the past few episodes, we will not be having guests as of next year.

So any topics you guys wanna hear, let me know and we can chat about them. As long as have a great rest of your week. I will see you next week. Farewell fellow Travelers.