Episode 35: Secrets to High-Converting Email Funnels with Melissa Esmeralda

  📍 Welcome to CreativeMind Smart Money, the podcast where creativity and business smarts collide. I’m your host, Samantha Eck, bookkeeper, business coach, and your go to guide for building the creative business of your dreams. Whether it’s mastering your money, streamlining your systems, or growing your business, I’m here to share insights that empower you to thrive.

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 You’re listening to the Creative Minds Smart Money Podcast. And today I have a special guest, Melissa Esmeralda is a conversion copywriter and funnel optimization strategist. She litigated hundreds of cases as a paralegal while playing rugby all over the US, even representing the country twice in two world cups. After informally hanging up her boots, she launched her copy studio, MEO Marketing Group, where she helps people. Busy entrepreneurs and their team streamline their marketing so they can stay in their zone of genius. It’s so good to have you today, Melissa. How are you?

I’m great. Thank you so much for having me. How are you?

I’m doing wonderful. A foggy day in Texas, but you know, that’s how it goes. So before we dive in, I would love for you to tell me a little bit about yourself, what you do, how you got started and why you specialize in this kind of space of email automation.

Yeah, definitely. I am a conversion copywriter and funnel optimization strategist. And what that means is I write words to sell things. So it’s a little bit different than content writing, which tends to be more educational, like blog posts, ghostwriting books. For example, copywriting, you want the reader to take some action, whether it’s to buy a product, download, a freebie or something like that.

And I, Transition into copywriting because like I just did not like my job, which I think is really common for a lot of people. I got into the legal field in college. I was working full time going to school full time and playing rugby full time. So when the pandemic hit and I realized that I didn’t have the support to do that keep me distracted. I realized like, okay. Well, I really need to make a shift and I got a facebook for copywriting Which is funny because I didn’t know what it was and now like I also write ads as well and eventually I niched down to like sales copy and email marketing just because The funnel is like one big piece.

And even though I do create everything in the funnel, email is something that is constantly changing and that you need to update all the time. And like, I really liked doing that for my clients because I was telling them, like, I do all the unsexy stuff that we know is important for your business, but I know you don’t have the time for it and you probably don’t want to do it.

So like, I’m happy to take that off their hands.

Yeah, and I love your way of explaining that because I feel like a lot of us as service providers, that’s exactly what we do. We take all the stuff that you consider unsexy and do our own thing with it and we make it our own thing and then you’re like, whoa, how did you do that? So that’s such a good point.

But let’s start with the basics. What makes a lead magnet landing page go from meh to must have for the right audience,

That’s a really good question. And I think, I know one of the biggest mistakes that I’ve seen, I know this is unintentional, especially if someone’s newer to business, or maybe it might be like the first landing page or lead magnet, for example, it is. writing it with the assumption that people already know who you are.

And it’s a bit of a warm lead because especially for a landing page, because it’s at the top of the funnel, the traffic will be colder. So you want to write it in a way that with the assumption that people don’t know who you are. So then if they don’t, then you should have a little bit of information about you.

A little bit information about the products. You don’t have to give the title away. From the headline, for example, you can add a little bit of eyebrow copy, which is like a sub headline or, a small subheading beneath the headline. If you want to provide more context, I think, data and stats look really well when you’re describing that league magnet.

And it doesn’t have to be a lot of words. It can just be like a sentence or two, a couple of bullet points that, talk about what they’re going to receive inside a testimonial, I think is really great, just because even if you don’t have a testimony specifically for your lead magnet having one for talking about, , how great it is to work with you, or say, you have a testimonial that is, Results oriented for something that the lead magnet can help with, but it was from like a one on one service, for example, that’s still a great testimonial to use and then just have a tiny mini about me section.

So people are like, oh, okay, well now I know who this is. So when they do get into your funnel, they’re not completely surprised to see your name in their inbox.

Yeah. I think that’s a really good point too, because I think a lot of the times, we go on to these email providers like kit or flow desk or something like that, and just look at one of their templates and say, Hey, let’s slap a bunch of information on there and we’re good to go someone will get my freebie.

They won’t really have any issues with it, but that’s so true because you never know where someone could be coming from. And they might not be connected with you on social media in a way that they already know you, they might be coming from somewhere else. And now they’re like, who? Who’s this person that’s suddenly in my inbox and sending me things, so?

Yeah, exactly.

So what are some of the other common mistakes that you see people making on their opt in pages that kind of hurt those conversions?

I think it’s similar to what I was talking about with the assumption that people probably either know more about who they are or that they might know more about the offer because generally someone’s coming to download a lead magnet because they need help with that specific problem, but they might not.

Know all the terminology that is in your industry So just really simplifying it in a way that people know exactly what they’re walking into and it’s and they don’t read and they’re like Oh, I don’t know if I need this because it’s talking about like conversions and I like all these other marketing terms For example and just making it clear for them.

So because you don’t want to confuse anybody ever, because confusion is a really big conversion killer. Because unfortunately, since we’re so close to what we do, sometimes it can be pretty easy to think like oh, this headline’s great. But we might not realize that someone who isn’t in that space that still needs that help might not know what that means.

Right, right, and I think that’s so true because I think we just have a problem converting what we’re trying to say in our head in a way that makes sense to other people, which is why it doesn’t hurt when you have help. Because a lot of the time someone’s going to have that outside perspective and be able to actually, help you understand it in a better way than you would be able to say it.

Um

on something, like I think it’s okay to ask AI and say like, hey, is this, simplified enough because that is like a very unbiased answer. And sometimes I think I’m doing fine. They’re like, actually, you should probably adjust this. I’m like, okay, well, that makes sense. That’s a fix.

Yes, especially when your AI knows your ideal audience, they know who you’re talking to, they’re probably going to be like, that doesn’t sound right to who you want to talk to. That sounds right to you, but not who you want to talk to.

Yeah, definitely.

So how do you write a landing page that speaks directly to your ideal client without sounding like every other offer out there?

Oh, I really like that question. I think generally I like to for either for myself or for clients, but also the way it teaches as well is before you start writing your landing page, be very clear about your ideal client and how your lead magnet can help themselves. Part of the problem, because Not everyone needs to have an Ascension model, but like I do generally like the idea of having your lead magnet point to a paid offer, whether it’s like your high ticket one on one service or like a lower ticket, DIY offer, for example, they all should.

Correlate with each other and compliment each other rather than having like, like, would it make sense for me to have a lead magnet talking about like SEO for websites when I’m trying to point them to like my email marketing offer, if that makes sense. So definitely keep that in mind and talk about the transformation.

Don’t just list out what’s inside. Talk about why it’s important to know those things. But again, clarified in a way that they’re not really in like Blocks of text. I always advocate for strong testimonials. So I like having research calls with, past clients because I know everybody knows the testimonials are great, but like I really love using testimonials that are specific to that specific offer or that product that naturally flow with what’s being said already, rather than just kind of having a wall of text that is all just like oh this is great.

Thanks for doing this because that’s nice to hear, but it’s not specific enough to like what is great about it or what the transformation was and you don’t even have to have A lot of them, but like I was talking about before, having that little bit of an intro section, talking about the lead man with the statistics, what you’ll find inside, then having the testimonial, and then having a little bit of like a mini bio, basically, just saying like, oh, this is who I am, this is how I came into doing what I do now, and who I help.

And then, the last section I like to have on the landing page is, you’re still calling out your deal clients to having a little section like this is for you if, and then having three or four bullet points that aren’t quite the same as the ones from the very top and then still having the button there, the call to action button, because that’s really important because you don’t want people scrolling around all over the place to find the button. You do want to make it as easy as possible for them.

Yes. Yeah, and I love that. And I think it’s very important too, because I think a lot of times we do just put the bullet points where like, here’s what’s inside. But we don’t think about like, why do they actually want to get on our email list to get this freebie? Or why are they even interested in this freebie? We tend to forget that side of things, which I think is so important because again, you don’t just wanna toss information at them. Because at that point, then you’re just giving away a freebie, right? You’re not really attracting the kind of person that you want. They’re just like, oh, cool. I can just get this for free. And they’ll go through your funnel and kind of end up getting to your offer and be like, why did I sign up for this? So it’s really good to have those kind of like transformational aspects upfront so that they can expect that once they get into your funnel.

Yeah, and that’s why it’s so important to talk to your ideal buyer. Because if you have an elite manga that could theoretically work for a pretty broad audience, audience, but that’s not the type of person you want to bring into your funnel. You want to keep that in mind because initially you might think like, well, that’s counterintuitive.

Like why am I wanting to narrow that focus with less people? But it’s so much better to have a smaller list of engaged people that are more in tune to what you offer rather than a really big list of people who don’t know who you are, because that’s when you start getting reported to spam, your analytics look bad, and you don’t want to end up in the spam folder because you’re probably not going to be out.

So I know you kind of mentioned some already, but is there any other must have elements you think that every lead magnet landing page should include to have like that maximum impact?

I think generally, a good headline that is clear about the benefits. So I think a lot of people think, oh, I have to have the title of the lead magnet in the headline. And you can, but if you have like a mock up of your lead magnet next to it, they’re already going to see the title of it. So I don’t think you necessarily need it.

So having a really strong headline that’s specific to, What it solves or what the benefit is, for example, that’s going to be a lot stronger than just download this free guide for X, Y, Z, for example. Cause then that adds a little bit of curiosity for someone to keep reading. And then they’re like, Oh, okay.

This actually has a lot more than I thought it was. And then they’re ready to download.

Yes, absolutely. Now once someone opts into your landing page, how do you transition from delivering value to selling to them without feeling pushy or gross?

Yeah. It’s it, I think it varies by person to person because some people are a lot more comfortable with selling. And I, to be honest, I had a hard time signing to my list for a long time, just because. Like I was doing, it’s different. Like when you do it for your clients and like doing it for yourself, you’re like, Oh, I have to do this for my people too.

Yes.

But I always think it’s a great idea to lead with value and not to over educate. Because I think it’s important for people to know that like, yes, you are providing value to them, but at the end of the day, you’re still a business. So they shouldn’t be shocked. If you’re selling something to them if you do sell to them Like some people believe in selling in every single email or sending a sales email every single day I know that works for some people like I don’t think that’s the best approach, but it also depends on your audience So if you feel comfortable selling every single day and your audience responds well to By all means go ahead and do it, but that doesn’t work for a lot of people and, if you have something Like where i’ve seen called a super signature so like I don’t sell in every email but in my signature I have an anonymous a Question form where my subscribers will submit their questions about email marketing and funnels And I answer them in other newsletters.

I also have my landing page template my email sequence Templates and they’re always there and people are always clicking on them. So you never know when someone is ready to buy now, rather than when you’re ready to sell, if that makes sense. And the welcome email sequence is really important in building that trust and starting that relationship and setting the expectations.

So if you are going to be in someone’s inbox once a week, that’s a really good place to let them know. So then when they’re receiving emails, Once a week, they’re like, Oh, okay. Melissa is talking to me about email marketing again, and they’re not going to be shocked by it because you do, it is better to set those expectations early rather than annoy them later on. They’re like, why am I getting these emails? From this person. So definitely establishing trust. I think it’s a good very good place to be vulnerable and talk about your founder story and Vulnerability can look different for everybody Some people are very comfortable sharing a lot of details and other people aren’t as much they can both be effective I’m just depends on what you’re comfortable with and again on the type of audience that you have But I always enjoy hearing a good founder story where they were like in my She was at that point in time and now they’re like very successful.

Like when I was brand new, I was like, wow, like I didn’t even know people could have online businesses and like work only like a handful of hours a week. So like putting yourself back into. Their shoes , is really powerful. And then of course, eventually you do want to have, talk about your offer, but again, it doesn’t have to be, well, now that you know all about me, go buy this 5, 000 program or anything like that, you can be a little bit more.

Simple about it and just let them know, Hey, this is what my offer is. If you’re interested, check it out. If you have any questions, book with a 15 minute. Clarity call with me or something along those lines.

And you can still nurture that relationship with somebody. Like if you want to send a nurture email or somewhat of a sales email, like every 30 days, just checking in with them, like, Hey, do you still have a problem with email marketing, for example?

And that can feel a lot less strenuous because even though it is all automated, it’s not like you’re in their face every day. Like, Hey, did you buy it now? And then tomorrow, Hey, did you buy it?

So it’s, it feels better as a business owner, but then as a subscriber too, you’re like, Oh yeah, actually. I do need help with this still and you’re able to build that trust in the meantime rather than like a very aggressive sales bro approach.

Yes. , I feel like that’s really, a really good idea as well, because I think that, you know, You’re right, a lot of people are scared of selling because, you know, you see an unsubscribed pop up from an email that you sell and you’re like, oh no, someone didn’t like it. But I feel like that’s so natural, like, you’re always going to get people who don’t like a way that you say something or don’t like the way that you sold something.

That just means they weren’t meant for you. They weren’t your ideal person. It’s nothing to get like really uptight over because I feel like If they are going to leave over you selling in an email list where that’s like what it’s made for, then they probably weren’t really there for your overall offer in the first place, which is totally okay because then you just weeded out someone who might not have been a good fit for you.

So, and that’s what your, that’s what your email list is made to do. In addition to all of

like your inquiry forms and things like that, it’s made to help you find the people who are like ready to buy from you.

Exactly, and I teach that all the time with unsubscribes, especially in the beginning, it’s really hard to not take it personally, too, like, well, what did I do? Like, I wasn’t saying anything offensive, because, like, you do see people all the time being like, be bold, you can’t be, you can’t please everybody, but that doesn’t mean that everything you say has to come out, like, very harsh or very polarizing.

You can just be yourself and like, you’d be surprised how many people resonate with like regular everyday things. And you don’t have to say anything. That’s like super shocking to try to like build a brand, for example, and subscribes aren’t a bad thing, especially like if you’re not actually saying anything offensive.

And I used to, I forgot, Oh, when I first implemented my. Anonymous question form. I got the most unsubscribes I’ve ever gotten, like, more than twice I was getting, and at first I was like, wow, that’s kind of a lot of people, but now that, like, I’ve been doing this for a few months, I get only, like, five or six.

At the most per email just because like now the people who see the value in that they’re sticking around and Even though at first it might feel a little bit weird that people are unsubscribing exactly what you said You’re trying to talk to your people and your people will understand that. Yes, you’re a business, but yes, you provide value But yes, you’re also relatable.

Yes. Exactly. So, with that being said, what’s your take on ethical selling and how can business owners promote their offers while staying true to their values?

Oh, I really love that question. I think as long as you’re I think it’s really important to have a strong sense of your branding, because yes, you and your business will evolve over time, and that’s completely okay, but don’t try to copy anybody else’s brand voice, and like, I don’t mean in like, Like I don’t think most people are like ripping anybody off or anything like that, but we might come across somebody like, wow, this person’s doing really well.

Like, I really want to sound like them, but you probably have a difference in personality. So you’re not going to quite sound like them and that’s okay. That’s completely okay. And just make sure that you’re still talking, like you still establish your brand voice and the way you speak to your subscribers is fairly consistent because people, Remember that and they really resonate with that and again, like I was talking about earlier You don’t have to hard sell all the time if you’re launching.

Of course, you’re going to send more emails. That’s It’s completely normal to send at least one email a day during your open cart period. And if you’re worried about unsubscribers, or even if you’re not, I always recommend having the, giving your subscribers the option to opt out of your launch emails. So that really helps with unsubscribes and maybe someone on your list, they either already bought your offer or they just know like they can’t afford your offer yet, but they will probably, Buy into it into the future, but they don’t want to receive the emails.

They just click a link, and then your ESP does a link trigger, and it takes them out of that sequence, but they’re still part of your list.

So you’re sending emails to less people. So it ends up helping your analytics a lot in the end because your open rates are going to be higher because they’re going to people who really want to read them and your click through rates are probably going to be higher because those people are going to be checking out the sales page and you don’t have to launch all the time.

I know a lot of people find launching pretty strenuous because it usually comes with like a conversion event and like a webinar and everything like that. But try to automate as much as you can. From your welcome sequence, you can have a longer. Evergreen sequence that you can use to nurture your subscribers.

Automate as much as you can, from your inquiry call and like application form, and I have a, like a secret pre call sequence. So once someone books a funnel strategy call with me, they receive an automated email sequence over three days. The first one is just talking about how, I’m excited to meet them and like brand values.

The second one is like client testimonials. And then the third one, I think it’s like a, I think I give them a secret freebie, and that helps, like, especially if someone has never talked to you face to face before, that’s a great way to kind of close that trust gap a bit. And by that. point when the time they’re on the call with you, they feel like they know you a little bit better.

So the conversation feels a lot easier because they’re not like, Oh, who’s this stranger that I’m talking to on the other side of the zoom, for example. But there’s so many little things that you can do like that, that really helps like with the subscriber experience and like the client experience. Cause at the end of the day, we do want to provide like a high value service.

So our clients are happy with what we do for them.

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you talked about like taking certain people off of like your launch emails and things like that because I think that’s what we call like segmentation. And to like bounce off of that, how early should you start segmenting your audience and what’s like the biggest benefit of doing it?

I love segmentation. I also call it tagging because like I use primarily use convert kit and kit. Kind of has like interchangeably, they’re slightly different but I love using them because it’s such a great way to kind of like separate people in your list and like group them in a Certain way because you really don’t need to email everybody on your list every sign every time you send an email a really easy way to get around this I have when someone goes into my email Or to, into my funnel, I tagged them right away with their entry points.

So like my lead magnet, or like I spoke on a summit or on a podcast, for example, then they received the email sequence. Once they’re out of the email sequence, they get a tag and the tag is MEO marketing groups, and that’s the name of my business. So when I send my weekly email to my list, I only send it to people who’ve gone through my entire funnel because when people are still in it, I don’t want to confuse them with like my weekly, I call it like MEOs, marketing memos.

And because it’s a little bit different than like my welcome secrets are gonna be like, Oh, I don’t really know what this is. And like, I already got an email from Melissa. Is this too many emails? And just because I’m so warming up that relationship with them. So I think it’s important to segment and tag your list as early as possible.

If you don’t have an ESP that does that easily, or you’re not quite sure how to do it yet, I would ask for replies. And one of your emails just help them just give them the options. Tell them

something along the lines of are you like, you know, we’re in business. Are you and have been like an established service provider, for example, no more than three or four options because then it’s a little bit overwhelming.

You can also have it as a poll. But yeah, if you’re able to set up the link trigger, then that immediately tells your ESP, this person clicked this link. So they’re in this category. So in the future, if you have two different offers, one for like a newer business owner and one for someone who’s a little bit more established.

There is no sense to send the one for the newer business owners to be people in the second category. So you just exclude them from those emails because they’re either going to unsubscribe or they’re just not going to open them at all because they’re going to, they know that offer isn’t something that they need and vice versa.

And that again, really helps with the data of your list because everybody is. Separated and you can go really creative and crazy about it. I don’t think it needs to be anything too crazy especially in the beginning but if you have a couple of offers say like your high ticket 101 services and then maybe like a low ticket offer having the segmentation email if you do want to create something like a little bit more complex and like If that’s the last email in your welcome sequence, for example, and they click the low ticket or the option that would point them to the low ticket offer, you can trigger another email sequence that is a sales sequence specifically for that low ticket offer.

And then for, if they click the other option, then it would be the same thing, but vice versa. And again, once all that’s automated, you really don’t have to worry about it too much, unless I always recommend still checking your data and trying to adjust things as your audience changes. But it’s really nice when the stuff is already there, because.

It is a big job up front, but afterwards it makes things so much easier.

Yes, and I love that you said that you set up like a tag for people who are just coming in because I think that’s a mistake that a lot of us make is we’ll have our regular newsletter and then someone comes in and they’re going through our first funnel, they’re trying to get to know us, and then we throw a newsletter at them and they’re like, whoa, like I just got two emails in the same day, like what’s going on? And that can lead to a lot of unsubscribes because now they’re like, why am I getting so many emails from this person?

Yeah. And at the same time too, like when they’re in the welcome email sequence, like you’re still introducing yourself and like talking about your brand values and talking about like case studies and everything, but when your newsletter, you might be more open with like a, like something that happened to you the other day or something like that.

So the tone might feel a little bit different just because the relationship is different. At that point,

you’re further along, like you talk to your friends a little bit differently than you two, like a coworker for example.

Yes. Yes. I love that. So if someone listening is just getting started with email automation, what’s the one thing that they should just focus on first?

Oh, I think that they should focus on having a lead magnet that complements whatever their paid offer is, whether it is their one on one service or if they do happen to have another like low ticket option, focus on that first and don’t overthink what the lead magnet should be. I think something like a checklist tends to be a little bit too simple.

You still want to over deliver in it, but don’t overwhelm them. With too much information because it is a little bit of a fine line, especially when if you Still aren’t sure what the level of awareness is regarding to that particular topic But once you have that ready, then you can start working on your landing page and then you can start working on your email list because if you Start writing an email or your welcome email sequence and aren’t quite sure what your lead magnet is yet That’s gonna Change a lot once you do have that lead magnet figured out.

Yes, absolutely. And I love that. So can you share an example of a well done automated email sequence that led to real results?

Yeah, I actually worked with A course creator over the summer and she has a big following on youtube And she has a high take she only has one offer. It’s a high ticket hybrid course group coaching program.

And the way her funnel worked is that she would have like a, I think it was like a 30 minute call with people, to see if they were a good fit for the program.

And then they would be invited to apply. And the problem was because it was Like a high ticket program. People weren’t showing up on calls so much. And then I suggest that you’re having a pre call sequence, like similar to the one that I have in my own business,

because that way you’re reminding people’s inbox a little bit more often.

You’re telling them like, Oh, I’m so excited to meet you. Here’s some more information about the program. And here are some people who have done really, really well and ended up resulting in a, 15 percent increase in conversion rates and people showing up on the call, but then also opting into the program because they had more reminders that felt a little bit more personalized, rather than just like the, like the Calendly email with the information for the call, for example.

Okay, yeah, no, I love that because I feel like a lot of the times we don’t think in that aspect of like, how do I get those conversions? How do I adjust things so that we can have a better email sequence? And I don’t, I think a lot of the times too, we just have a call, like we don’t have any sort of interaction before the call.

You’re just like, okay, they booked the call. We’re going to see them then. Or you have those automated emails, Hey, your call’s in an hour. But I feel like adding that personality before that call definitely will help them even warm up more towards you and really get to know you on a deeper level.

definitely. Which is always the goal. You want someone to feel comfortable on the call and not nervous about talking to you.

Yes, exactly. Well, this was fantastic and I really appreciate you just chatting today, Melissa. Where can my audience connect with you, learn more about you, or even snag one of your amazing resources? Yes.

Yeah, you can check out my website, emilmarketinggroup. com. I’m also on Instagram. Same handle, same thing for LinkedIn. I do have a lead magnet. It’s called 10 Subject Line Formulas for Attention Grabbing Emails. So it is, of course, a Subject line formulas, but also it has some bonus sections in there like so, sales psychology aspects.

, Try to get better testimonials from clients and a couple of other things just to Like really help you hone in that piece just because we know email marketing is really powerful and I love helping people from all stages In it.

Awesome. Well, fantastic. I’ll definitely make sure to include all that in the show notes so you guys can connect with Melissa. Otherwise, Melissa, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it and I can’t wait for our listeners to hear this episode.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This is a lot of fun

📍 That’s a wrap on today’s episode. I hope you’re walking away with fresh ideas to optimize your email marketing and create a funnel that actually works for you. If you love this conversation, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with a fellow business owner who could use a little email magic.

Your support helps more creative entrepreneurs find the tools that they need to thrive. Thanks for tuning in and as always, farewell fellow travelers.